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Cop Off-Time?


WolfE

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My suggestion, although controversial, I believe is better for the server.

Okay, my suggestion is to allow cops to do illegal things when on as a civilian. Woah woah woah! Calm down, calm down... Just hear me out. Seriously. I've already had some chats with people and they really don't seem to like it so this is going to sway their opinion from one side to the polar opposite other.

Pros :

  1. The cops will be able to see themselves from the other side - This will improve the cops roleplay because they will understand how they appear and act towards civlians and rebels. This is a vital part of being a cop in my opinion. If cops aren't able to see how the cops are treating rebels, they'll become stricter and stricter. Situations where cops are scrapping helicopters and trucks left, right and centre are horrible for rebels, seeing their hardwork go to waste when some poor roleplay is present. If cops can experience this, they'll be more lenient and reward people for good roleplay. Currently, because of my experiences with cops, I'm really against roleplaying with them at drug dealer or anything. My helicopter got scrapped for LANDING INSIDE KAVALA. I was landing for some quality roleplay because they were shooting at me when I was at the hospital. But no, they refused to roleplay. They were hellbent on getting it scrapped. I don't want this to become a hate thread so I will say this; I've had many good roleplay situations with cops. A lot of them are great at RP but I still feel that force-wide, it could be improved.
  2. It's good fun! - Let's be honest, rebel is fun, doing illegal stuff is fun, earning money is fun, getting into gunfights is fun. Roleplay is amazing, you can have it as cop and civlian. But you can also have it as rebel! In the past, my best roleplay experiences have stemmed from illegal things such as murder and drug trafficking. If you can make up a good story, it's amazing. Sure, you may hear something 2 or 3 times over, but to the rebels, they've most likely never heard of it happening. If something keeps getting said, you need to crack down on it and then rebels will have to think of something else. If they want to get out of it with a gunfight, it's their fault, they'll lose gear and a lot more money than if they want to roleplay it. BLUFOR is fun, but so is civilian. Give the cops some time to mess around with expensive vehicles and big guns with no 'cop restrictions'.
  3. Cops can get 'secret intel' - Cops can sometimes have a hard time in gunfights and bank heists. Let's be honest. The rebels generally control how, when, where and why a scenario is started. They get big helicopters. They get big guns. They can organise themselves over a long time, cops have to do the same in a couple of minutes. If cops can play as rebel, some will learn from the tactics used in rebel gameplay. This can give the cops a higher chance in bank jobs, hostage situations and large operations in certain areas. They'll find out eventually, they'll know where certain gangs like to put people etc. but a lot of the time it's easier to learn from experience.
  4. It's balance out the amount of police and civilians. Because cops are forced to play cop or play civilian, a lot of cops won't play civilian because they much prefer rebel gameplay. I've often seen it where the cops are at a ridiculous ratio to civilians. If cops get the choice, some would prefer to play rebel at that time because let's be honest, not many people like playing civilian and not rebel. The amount of people in civilian slots would increase and the amount of people in BLUFOR would decrease, balancing it out. You may say that this is only due to the servers low player base. But, unfortunately, it won't be for long. I had this conversation with @PaulS and he made the valid point that there would be no reason to not be in cops and therefore there would be way too many cops and not enough civilians, that there would be too many inactive cops and, although I can see where he's coming from, I disagree. If there are too many cops, just close recruitment - it doesn't need to be open all the time. If there are inactive cops, kick them - if cops are being kicked, recruitment will open again. Then the inactive cops will be kicked, and so on. This is perfectly shown by this CollegeHumor video funnily enough : https://youtu.be/K_P9PR5ckFk?t=3m9s

Cons :

  1. Cops may gain vendettas - Cops playing as rebel is always fun, but cops may begin to dislike certain cops because of scenarios that happen during their playtime as rebel. This can have some, although small, effects within the police force. People will stop patrolling with each other and people won't work well as a team with certain people. It's generally just bad if people can't/won't communicate due to situations completely unrelated to the situation at hand. It makes the cop force less effective in combat and in RP because if you don't communicate well, situations can get really confusing.
  2. Cops may 'manhunt' certain cops - If a cop dislikes another cop and sees that they're on patrol, they'll log on as cop, get their location and either tell their gangmates or log on as rebel themselves to kidnap them/rob them. This is metagaming, so it's against the server rules meaning it can't be completely the cops' fault. If a cop logs on as cop and then mysteriously logs on as rebel minutes later, only to kidnap/rob another cop, you could report them, but the fact that you'd have to look out for this is another step that could be used against this suggestion.

System Suggestions :

  1. You could also add a peak-time system, in my opinion, it'd work really well. You could say that you can't play as a rebel during let's say midday (12:00pm) and 8pm. If you have any points please commen them down below and if an Admin wants to comment, please don't lock this thread, I feel like it'll be an interesting thread for discussion. - @WolfE
  2. You could add a system where if there was at least a 1:2 ratio of cops to civilians, cops logging on could play as rebel to help balance it out. - @Cool
Edited by WolfE
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The problem is is that for someone to play cop and rebel within roleplay they must lead 2 lives, one as a rebel, one as a cop, so if cops wanted the "secret intel" they couldn't use it whilst on as a cop as it would be metagaming as it is another life, now onto the balance of civilians, more cops online=more civs that's just how it is, having police playing rebel results in less cops online and a lower player count. Now as for cops "seeing their other side" this will apply to a very small minority as cops, I cannot think of one officer in the police force currently who hasn't played rebel on an altis life server before, yes your helicopter got scrapped, why? because you are landing in the biggest town of a war-torn island, in which there are multiple laws against landing in city limits and creating noise disturbances, you were given warning shots and proceeded to land, does that sound like a good idea? Landing in kavala can also disrupt roleplay and that is why your helicopter was scrapped. Cops will be more lenient especially with the server being in early stages, I haven't given out one ticket and sent about 4 people to prison, if your roleplay is good then you won't be punished :). The only real point that I think is valid is it is fun but one pro vs many cons. I can guarantee you that both police command and staff leads will never allow this system. We do however have police holidays. P.S all inactive cops have been removed.

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3 hours ago, Richard said:

The problem is is that for someone to play cop and rebel within roleplay they must lead 2 lives, one as a rebel, one as a cop, so if cops wanted the "secret intel" they couldn't use it whilst on as a cop as it would be metagaming as it is another life, now onto the balance of civilians, more cops online=more civs that's just how it is, having police playing rebel results in less cops online and a lower player count. Now as for cops "seeing their other side" this will apply to a very small minority as cops, I cannot think of one officer in the police force currently who hasn't played rebel on an altis life server before, yes your helicopter got scrapped, why? because you are landing in the biggest town of a war-torn island, in which there are multiple laws against landing in city limits and creating noise disturbances, you were given warning shots and proceeded to land, does that sound like a good idea? Landing in kavala can also disrupt roleplay and that is why your helicopter was scrapped. Cops will be more lenient especially with the server being in early stages, I haven't given out one ticket and sent about 4 people to prison, if your roleplay is good then you won't be punished :). The only real point that I think is valid is it is fun but one pro vs many cons. I can guarantee you that both police command and staff leads will never allow this system. We do however have police holidays. P.S all inactive cops have been removed.

Many cons? Get your seatbelts on lads, we have a tunnel-vision minded officer here who refuses to think about it properly. Take after @Cool and think about it rather than blindly giving a poorly structured paragraph (Emphasis on the paragraph part).

All I hear from people about this is that 'within RP,', 'it's not realistic', 'it'd break the RP experience,' and so on and so forth. Why are you taking the roleplay part so God damn seriously? Sure, this is an RP server, the gamemode is heavily RP oriented but it's that part of the server that doesn't need to be in character. Altis Life is a fun gamemode, why're you restricting the amount of things you can do? You say that a lot of the officers have played rebel before - great! I couldn't care less, I guarantee some of them just want to come on as rebel sometimes and have a laugh, you've tried to say that you can't think of any cops that would want to do this and that it's a stupid idea, yet the DCC of Athira is already agreeing that it'd be a good bit of fun? A large amount of people enjoy playing rebel. Don't you dare make the arguement that 'if they wanted to play rebel, they wouldn't've joined cops'. That's just a bunch of baloney. Some people enjoy both factions - rebel provides some really unique RP at times, why restrict it?

I know you have holidays, that's great, don't worry! You can keep them :D. As I said, peak hours would restrict the play time as rebel and keep the cop numbers high during times when rebels and civilians are plentiful. You could easily take a police holiday and not have this restriction.

Just gonna touch up on the Kavala part, I didn't want to dwell on it and it was just meant to be an example but seeing as you like it so much I thought I may as well. Given warning shots and then landing is bad? Why would I want to be at a high altitude if a stray bullet hits my helicopters engine? Precisely, now the disrupt roleplay part? Sure, I wouldn't want to stop them from standing next to drug dealer with a couple of hobos bumbling around - what immersive roleplay!

3 hours ago, Cool said:

I think police should be able to play as rebels to level out the ratio between cops and rebels. If there is for example more than 50% of the players online as cops. We are allowed to go on as rebels. Making it allowed outside of peak hours could also increase the playercount. Not much to do outside of peak as a cop. I want to do some runs and mess around hahaha

Cool, I appreciate the suggestion, personally, I think that it's a good idea. However, it'd have to be only allowed outside of peak hours full stop. The 50% rule is good, but it'd still probably have to be outside of the peak hours, I'd assume someone would despise it for no reason so we may as well avoid the hassle. I'll add it to the thread now.

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On 28/10/2016 at 2:38 PM, WolfE said:

My suggestion, although controversial, I believe is better for the server.

Okay, my suggestion is to allow cops to do illegal things when on as a civilian. Woah woah woah! Calm down, calm down... Just hear me out. Seriously. I've already had some chats with people and they really don't seem to like it so this is going to sway their opinion from one side to the polar opposite other.

Pros :

  1. The cops will be able to see themselves from the other side - This will improve the cops roleplay because they will understand how they appear and act towards civlians and rebels. This is a vital part of being a cop in my opinion. If cops aren't able to see how the cops are treating rebels, they'll become stricter and stricter. Situations where cops are scrapping helicopters and trucks left, right and centre are horrible for rebels, seeing their hardwork go to waste when some poor roleplay is present. If cops can experience this, they'll be more lenient and reward people for good roleplay. Currently, because of my experiences with cops, I'm really against roleplaying with them at drug dealer or anything. My helicopter got scrapped for LANDING INSIDE KAVALA. I was landing for some quality roleplay because they were shooting at me when I was at the hospital. But no, they refused to roleplay. They were hellbent on getting it scrapped. I don't want this to become a hate thread so I will say this; I've had many good roleplay situations with cops. A lot of them are great at RP but I still feel that force-wide, it could be improved.
  2. It's good fun! - Let's be honest, rebel is fun, doing illegal stuff is fun, earning money is fun, getting into gunfights is fun. Roleplay is amazing, you can have it as cop and civlian. But you can also have it as rebel! In the past, my best roleplay experiences have stemmed from illegal things such as murder and drug trafficking. If you can make up a good story, it's amazing. Sure, you may hear something 2 or 3 times over, but to the rebels, they've most likely never heard of it happening. If something keeps getting said, you need to crack down on it and then rebels will have to think of something else. If they want to get out of it with a gunfight, it's their fault, they'll lose gear and a lot more money than if they want to roleplay it. BLUFOR is fun, but so is civilian. Give the cops some time to mess around with expensive vehicles and big guns with no 'cop restrictions'.
  3. Cops can get 'secret intel' - Cops can sometimes have a hard time in gunfights and bank heists. Let's be honest. The rebels generally control how, when, where and why a scenario is started. They get big helicopters. They get big guns. They can organise themselves over a long time, cops have to do the same in a couple of minutes. If cops can play as rebel, some will learn from the tactics used in rebel gameplay. This can give the cops a higher chance in bank jobs, hostage situations and large operations in certain areas. They'll find out eventually, they'll know where certain gangs like to put people etc. but a lot of the time it's easier to learn from experience.
  4. It's balance out the amount of police and civilians. Because cops are forced to play cop or play civilian, a lot of cops won't play civilian because they much prefer rebel gameplay. I've often seen it where the cops are at a ridiculous ratio to civilians. If cops get the choice, some would prefer to play rebel at that time because let's be honest, not many people like playing civilian and not rebel. The amount of people in civilian slots would increase and the amount of people in BLUFOR would decrease, balancing it out. You may say that this is only due to the servers low player base. But, unfortunately, it won't be for long. I had this conversation with @PaulS and he made the valid point that there would be no reason to not be in cops and therefore there would be way too many cops and not enough civilians, that there would be too many inactive cops and, although I can see where he's coming from, I disagree. If there are too many cops, just close recruitment - it doesn't need to be open all the time. If there are inactive cops, kick them - if cops are being kicked, recruitment will open again. Then the inactive cops will be kicked, and so on. This is perfectly shown by this CollegeHumor video funnily enough : https://youtu.be/K_P9PR5ckFk?t=3m9s

Cons :

  1. Cops may gain vendettas - Cops playing as rebel is always fun, but cops may begin to dislike certain cops because of scenarios that happen during their playtime as rebel. This can have some, although small, effects within the police force. People will stop patrolling with each other and people won't work well as a team with certain people. It's generally just bad if people can't/won't communicate due to situations completely unrelated to the situation at hand. It makes the cop force less effective in combat and in RP because if you don't communicate well, situations can get really confusing.
  2. Cops may 'manhunt' certain cops - If a cop dislikes another cop and sees that they're on patrol, they'll log on as cop, get their location and either tell their gangmates or log on as rebel themselves to kidnap them/rob them. This is metagaming, so it's against the server rules meaning it can't be completely the cops' fault. If a cop logs on as cop and then mysteriously logs on as rebel minutes later, only to kidnap/rob another cop, you could report them, but the fact that you'd have to look out for this is another step that could be used against this suggestion.

System Suggestions :

  1. You could also add a peak-time system, in my opinion, it'd work really well. You could say that you can't play as a rebel during let's say midday (12:00pm) and 8pm. If you have any points please commen them down below and if an Admin wants to comment, please don't lock this thread, I feel like it'll be an interesting thread for discussion. - @WolfE
  2. You could add a system where if there was at least a 1:2 ratio of cops to civilians, cops logging on could play as rebel to help balance it out. - @Cool

you missed a few cons.

3. there will never be enough cops online.

4. It will ruin it for the polcie that only play police, as we would havve to remove the 20k paycheck and put iit down to 1.5k.

5. It breaks the police, as the polcie becomes a huge friend group, and they endd up creating a gang together so then they all go on as a rebel together leading to no police and easy drug runs for that group of police.

I could go on and on, the police is this way for a reason, it is not for everyone, some people cant handle it and you do get police holidays, which is controlled, if the police is not for you go play as a rebel instead.

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3 minutes ago, Fuel said:

you missed a few cons.

3. there will never be enough cops online.

4. It will ruin it for the polcie that only play police, as we would havve to remove the 20k paycheck and put iit down to 1.5k.

5. It breaks the police, as the polcie becomes a huge friend group, and they endd up creating a gang together so then they all go on as a rebel together leading to no police and easy drug runs for that group of police.

I could go on and on, the police is this way for a reason, it is not for everyone, some people cant handle it and you do get police holidays, which is controlled, if the police is not for you go play as a rebel instead.

There will never be enough cops online? What do you mean by this? If it was added there would be no such thing, you don't need to restrict people to do something to get them to do it. Currently, there are a lot of cops. Not all of them play at once, sometimes it's because they want to play KOTH or something but they probably just don't want to play cop. It stops people from burning out on cop if you don't restrict them to only playing cop because after a while, they'll get bored as with most things that you do for a long time.

Ruin it for the police that only play police? Yeah, you've lost me on that one mate. How will allowing cops to go on as rebel, ruin it? It doesn't change anything other than you being less active within the cops. I don't understand how it would ruin it for the police that only play police.

It breaks the police and makes it a huge friend group. Sure, that can happen, and it does happen. But it doesn't make the whole force a group of friends, a lot of people don't like other people in the police force, I'm sure. I'll put this on the original thread, although I don't believe it's a completely valid point.

Could go on and on? Please do, I'm interested in these points.

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1 minute ago, Chelston said:

Fuel gave a reason, he stated that the paycheck would have to be reduced from 20k to 1.5k. Probably due to the fact that police would be doing illegal drug runs, that pay a lot of money, as well as getting the large paycheck when they are on as police. If this was changed it would be unfair on police who were not doing these large paying runs as they would miss out.

Didn't think of that, surely an extra 18.5k per 15 minutes isn't exactly economy breaking?

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24 minutes ago, WolfE said:

6:05 (GMT) 11 cops with 4 medics and 9 civilians.

Sorry to say it @Fuel but I feel as though your points are falling apart as we speak.

well that shows how narrow sighted you are and how your opinions are baseless, yes for now, growth, means it will change, but how about you just leave the police, as you obviously want to be a rebel. this is not and will not change regardless of what you say.

If the command want to give a grooup of people a rebel holiday thats there option, but there is no reason you can not ggo on as a civ and play, so as you put it "your points are falling apart as we speak", but all you want to do is go on and kill people, so yes I would rather you go play koth.

Arrogant prick.

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